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标题: 《自然》:癌症基础研究被指大多不可靠(ZT) [打印本页]

作者: marrowstem    时间: 2012-4-4 19:35     标题: 《自然》:癌症基础研究被指大多不可靠(ZT)

     前安进公司研究员发现,很多有关癌症的基础研究——很大一部分来自大学实验室——都是不可靠的。这一发现为研制新药的前景蒙上阴影。
/ a% Z  m+ B& h4 W3 m$ w      C·格伦·贝格利曾担任安进公司全球癌症研究工作的负责人长达10年之久。他的科研小组对享有盛名的实验室发表在一流杂志上的53份“里程碑式”研究论文进行鉴定。贝格利希望能在以这些论文为基础的新药研发之前确保这些研究发现的可靠性。结果是,这53项研究发现中有47项的研究结果无法重现。他在今天出版的最新一期英国《自然》周刊上公布了这一发现。0 b: ?" F- C! ~! i( q) s
    贝格利说:“这一发现令人震惊。”无法打赢对抗癌症的战争有很多因素,比如实验对象或者是资金等。现在叉找到了一个新的原因——不可靠的基础科学研究结果太多了。这些科学研究对象都是在实验室里的动物或者细胞。& |: p) M5 P4 z: J$ Q( c; }% b
    贝格利的发现与去年德国拜耳股份公司科学家的一份报告相呼应。当贝格利科研小组的100名科学家无法证实论文结果时,他们联系了论文作者。科学家们最常见的反应是说:“你们没做对。”麻省理工学院主攻癌症的生物学家、曾获得诺贝尔奖的菲尔·夏普说,事实上,癌症生物学极其复杂。- ~3 F2 m& Z/ |! F! S
     在一个癌症研究大会上,贝格利和主要负责其中一项有问题研究的科学家会晤过。贝格利说:“我们把论文一行一行、一个字一个字地看了一遍。我告诉他,我们把他们的试验重新做了50遍,但得不出他们的结果。他表示,他们做了6次试验,其中有一次能得出他们想要的结果。但他们还是将其写进论文中。因为这将会是一个完美的故事。这个消息真是太幻灭了。”8 X( b5 l0 f4 `& \. w& m3 n
这种选择性的文章发表只不过是研究结果不可靠的其中一个原因。基础科学研究与临床试验方式不同的地方在于,实验室的研究者知道哪一个细胞系或者哪一只小鼠得到治疗或者得了癌症。研究者从而可以创造出一个理论,更好地诠释他们想要的证据。4 r- @; \* ~- k) K
    华盛顿大学的费里埃·丰说:“在知名杂志刊登论文是你能得到资金或者工作的最好保证。这种不健康的念头会导致科学家追求轰动效应,有时候还会做出不诚实的行为。”
作者: marrowstem    时间: 2012-4-4 19:38

      In cancer science, many 'discoveries' don't hold up+ \* s3 x* S5 d8 D% r
     By Sharon Begley8 R* X/ `" g3 d) R- I2 l

  ^6 e1 E0 l7 v0 G  E& P     NEW YORK (Reuters) - A former researcher at Amgen Inc has found that many basic studies on cancer -- a high proportion of them from university labs -- are unreliable, with grim consequences for producing new medicines in the future.
9 V) `$ P5 y2 W- k' L, E; C3 d4 G/ N       During a decade as head of global cancer research at Amgen, C. Glenn Begley identified 53 "landmark" publications -- papers in top journals, from reputable labs -- for his team to reproduce. Begley sought to double-check the findings before trying to build on them for drug development.Result: 47 of the 53 could not be replicated. He described his findings in a commentary piece published on Wednesday in the journal Nature.8 |) P; ^2 p; M7 S3 E' `
      "It was shocking," said Begley, now senior vice president of privately held biotechnology company TetraLogic, which develops cancer drugs. "These are the studies the pharmaceutical industry relies on to identify new targets for drug development. But if you're going to place a $1 million or $2 million or $5 million bet on an observation, you need to be sure it's true. As we tried to reproduce these papers we became convinced you can't take anything at face value."
& V  [  @3 d- U0 O4 f6 C      The failure to win "the war on cancer" has been blamed on many factors, from the use of mouse models that are irrelevant to human cancers to risk-averse funding agencies. But recently a new culprit has emerged: too many basic scientific discoveries, done in animals or cells growing in lab dishes and meant to show the way to a new drug, are wrong.& ]0 V9 i) j8 A) q9 ]
     Begley's experience echoes a report from scientists at Bayer AG last year. Neither group of researchers alleges fraud, nor would they identify the research they had tried to replicate.
9 P9 n& g8 e& p  a9 K' P4 B; e  V     But they and others fear the phenomenon is the product of a skewed system of incentives that has academics cutting corners to further their careers.5 h( f0 X1 E( y0 [1 S
George Robertson of Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia previously worked at Merck on neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's. While at Merck, he also found many academic studies that did not hold up.+ e( [6 O6 Z- E8 [2 i5 R! o
     "It drives people in industry crazy. Why are we seeing a collapse of the pharma and biotech industries? One possibility is that academia is not providing accurate findings," he said.* b/ a! d' f- {3 B+ Y4 i6 z9 |3 ~- D" H
   
7 M7 s2 u9 r! ~8 B1 t( @    BELIEVE IT OR NOT
/ _/ N3 o* l" s" Y7 f6 T     Over the last two decades, the most promising route to new cancer drugs has been one pioneered by the discoverers of Gleevec, the Novartis drug that targets a form of leukemia, and Herceptin, Genentech's breast-cancer drug. In each case, scientists discovered a genetic change that turned a normal cell into a malignant one. Those findings allowed them to develop a molecule that blocks the cancer-producing process.* ]+ Z/ _- w: e
     This approach led to an explosion of claims of other potential "druggable" targets. Amgen tried to replicate the new papers before launching its own drug-discovery projects.
! h. J8 E/ b; E8 M8 C. o     Scientists at Bayer did not have much more success. In a 2011 paper published in Nature Reviews Drug Discovery and titled, "Believe it or not," they analyzed in-house projects that built on "exciting published data" from basic science studies. "Often, key data could not be reproduced," wrote Dr. Khusru Asadullah, vice president and head of target discovery at Bayer HealthCare in Berlin, and colleagues.
* P2 [( p  ]1 |* |     Of 47 cancer projects at Bayer during 2011, less than one-quarter could reproduce previously reported findings, despite the efforts of three or four scientists working full time for up to a year. Bayer dropped the projects.
. M8 k6 B5 u% `9 S. k     Bayer and Amgen found that the prestige of a journal was no guarantee a paper would be solid. "The scientific community assumes that the claims in a preclinical study can be taken at face value," Begley and Dr. Lee Ellis of MD Anderson Cancer Center wrote in Nature. It assumes, too, that "the main message of the paper can be relied on ... Unfortunately, this is not always the case."& q5 b( O- J5 D4 {2 K  G9 f
      When the Amgen replication team of about 100 scientists could not confirm reported results, they contacted the authors. Those who cooperated discussed what might account for the inability of Amgen to confirm the results. Some let Amgen borrow antibodies and other materials used in the original study or even repeat experiments under the original authors' direction.
& v: u; g; S& }' c( o2 n        Some authors required the Amgen scientists sign a confidentiality agreement barring them from disclosing data at odds with the original findings. "The world will never know" which 47 studies -- many of them highly cited -- are apparently wrong, Begley said.
. y+ x- C3 M8 [2 A; R, }% E      The most common response by the challenged scientists was: "you didn't do it right." Indeed, cancer biology is fiendishly complex, noted Phil Sharp, a cancer biologist and Nobel laureate at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
/ ?8 A8 l6 Z7 L/ a) B& V6 z     Even in the most rigorous studies, the results might be reproducible only in very specific conditions, Sharp explained: "A cancer cell might respond one way in one set of conditions and another way in different conditions. I think a lot of the variability can come from that."
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- w6 ^" O3 l! uTHE BEST STORY
: H$ B/ v) ^5 x7 M% C8 o     Other scientists worry that something less innocuous explains the lack of reproducibility.Part way through his project to reproduce promising studies, Begley met for breakfast at a cancer conference with the lead scientist of one of the problematic studies.
! |  h$ e; K) H8 `4 J     "We went through the paper line by line, figure by figure," said Begley. "I explained that we re-did their experiment 50 times and never got their result. He said they'd done it six times and got this result once, but put it in the paper because it made the best story. It's very disillusioning."
( H8 z- d- w8 @. b$ R8 E3 u      Such selective publication is just one reason the scientific literature is peppered with incorrect results.For one thing, basic science studies are rarely "blinded" the way clinical trials are. That is, researchers know which cell line or mouse got a treatment or had cancer. That can be a problem when data are subject to interpretation, as a researcher who is intellectually invested in a theory is more likely to interpret ambiguous evidence in its favor.
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      The problem goes beyond cancer.On Tuesday, a committee of the National Academy of Sciences heard testimony that the number of scientific papers that had to be retracted increased more than tenfold over the last decade; the number of journal articles published rose only 44 percent.. e8 ~$ U0 O9 J2 b7 |
     Dr. Ferric Fang of the University of Washington, speaking to the panel, said he blamed a hypercompetitive academic environment that fosters poor science and even fraud, as too many researchers compete for diminishing funding.2 `! l$ T; n! n5 G9 H' A
      "The surest ticket to getting a grant or job is getting published in a high-profile journal," said Fang. "This is an unhealthy belief that can lead a scientist to engage in sensationalism and sometimes even dishonest behavior.", A# T9 G4 j2 U: z5 R
      The academic reward system discourages efforts to ensure a finding was not a fluke. Nor is there an incentive to verify someone else's discovery. As recently as the late 1990s, most potential cancer-drug targets were backed by 100 to 200 publications. Now each may have fewer than half a dozen.
* L$ R( d" h/ ~: t% D& t       "If you can write it up and get it published you're not even thinking of reproducibility," said Ken Kaitin, director of the Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development. "You make an observation and move on. There is no incentive to find out it was wrong."% W0 e+ \2 Y% X0 D
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作者: FreeCell    时间: 2012-4-4 20:27

嘻嘻,人类抗癌战争年年都有“里程碑式”“突破”,次次癌细胞都能“逃过劫难”而“安然无恙”,看来当今的主流癌症理论多是混淆视听!
作者: Tlexander    时间: 2012-4-5 01:03

回复 marrowstem 的帖子
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真遗憾,他们现在才发现,10年前就有人说这句话了,可惜没发表
作者: 流泪的鱼    时间: 2012-4-5 08:33

何止是癌症基础研究大多不可靠,其他研究:植物,动物,化学研究就可靠吗?在利益下,可靠的东西越来越少。我这几年什么论文也没发表出来,是因为每次实验结果都不一样,所以没发表,但是如果造假的话,5篇SCI都发了。对自己负责,对职业负责!在金钱面前,做一个强者!
作者: telomerase    时间: 2012-4-5 08:49

很正常8 B7 r4 G4 B0 K# J3 C' ?0 n1 T
主要是很多实验都是在人为限定的条件下得出的,即使有用但放到机体里就体现不出来了。
6 M" m  t2 C! ^8 w, M8 r而且试验时剂量都较高,临床那样用不是治病是要命
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' y) t, H* s2 H" q我觉得我老板以前说的那个话很对,把致命的能改成慢性的就已经是很成功了。动不动就治愈(倒是也有)有点难度。! F8 Y/ R# c- O% l
就像个笑话说的:有个杀猪的去收猪,碰到一个财主卖猪,杀猪的说要是这猪长得像您一样(肥)就好了。  财主很无奈的说我长这样花了30多年呢。
0 q- B( u3 Y. Q% X1 N人家肿瘤发起来至少也2次,3次打击长了好久才起来的。我们做个试验,也就3-5年。晒药是找靶点费事,找到了,做也挺快的。
作者: shiyi    时间: 2012-4-5 08:51

整个生物医学研究都是这个鸟样,这也是NIH、中国政府投入大量资金而能产业化的生物制品(新药、食品等)极少的主要原因。我感觉现有的生物医学研究模式和新药研发模式已经走入死胡同了,大家都在编故事、自说自话、自娱自乐……不知道生物医学未来路在何方……
作者: 干细胞谷    时间: 2012-4-5 09:18

还是前辈说得对:实践是检验真理的唯一标准。理论只是一种逻辑,可以自娱自乐的。
作者: daviddow    时间: 2012-4-5 15:51

求助该篇文章
作者: savid888    时间: 2012-4-8 19:09

这种选择性发表简直太常见了,因为必须要圆故事啊!!!
4 t7 G4 W4 ]1 @9 _% v. J所以大家都在自说自话,自卖自夸。真是一片繁荣啊!
作者: kalaka    时间: 2012-4-14 00:21

本帖最后由 kalaka 于 2012-4-13 11:22 编辑
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回复 daviddow 的帖子
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原文( Z' ?+ n: b4 j" v! u
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作者: hany2007    时间: 2012-4-14 01:39

向安进公司的研发团队致敬,这才是真正的science。
作者: qingbao    时间: 2012-4-19 18:46

既然如此,大家对于大学实验室研究以及大学教育,有什么建设性的改进建议么,Policy implications?
作者: vae有何不可    时间: 2012-4-21 22:15

这个真的需要探讨下,,国内的科研环境太乱,,
作者: zjc0305    时间: 2012-4-22 18:52

关注--一层纸被捅破了,不知道对整个科研方向会有什么影响
作者: cochongg    时间: 2012-4-30 01:07

在这个物欲横流的社会,利益,名誉,欲望黑洞的吸引下,,很多治学的人其身不正,误入歧途甚至积重难返,一错再错。
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但是我们相对于宇宙发育几亿年来说,渺小得如同沧海一粟,求知千万不可迷失真正的自我。
( V* j- B  X3 J8 b+ u淡泊明志,宁静致远。
作者: knowtumor    时间: 2012-8-4 21:55

更有意思的是,不能重复的研究,其被旁引次数要远高于那些能被重复的研究。说明什么呢?" y1 B( s4 Z6 z( o. }7 d
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杂志的IF是每篇文章的平均被索引次数算出的。因而,这里的推论就是,IF越高的杂志,论文的可信度越低。IF=incredibility factor
作者: fenglinzhu    时间: 2012-8-21 12:54

现在对于癌症的研究大多数还仅限于理论上或者实验室里的研究。众所周知实验室研究都是在限定的条件下进行研究的,而对于一个有机体来说,机体的内环境远远没有实验室所创造的条件那么简单,好多研究结果都是在没有任何临床实验就对外宣称XXX对癌症治疗有多大的作用。
作者: jensn    时间: 2012-9-22 08:25

首先我对楼上几位对现在生命科学研究的模式表示质疑的精神表达我由衷的敬意,这是科学向前发展的必然推动力。不过或许我们应该更宽容一些,这种宽容不是纵容对科学可以有选择的造假,而是我觉得我们对一种现象的解释和思考是一种渐进式的,不可能一下子就能够就正中事物的本质。或者允许我多啰嗦几句,慢慢道来。第一、生命的起源、发生、发展是一个及其漫长的过程,从最初的生命迹象到进化成我们现在这个样子,花了大概30亿年,这三十亿年里环境经过无数次的改变,我们也在这变化的环境中不断的调整,适应并最终生存了一下。每一次的适应都需要我们生命体系作出选择和变革,一次选择,一个印记并最终成就现在的我们。这期间无数的偶然都是我们现在无法重现的。而作为进化产物的我们,现在努力探寻的也只是其中的点点蛛丝马迹。“人不可能同时踏进两条河流”,换句话说,不同的人在不同的时期做相同的事情,本身得到的结果可能就不一样。第二。对于科学的态度。我们都说实践是检验真理的唯一标准,那也是放在很长一段时间轴上来思考的。如果对于一时的无法重复就否定一项生命科学成果,则本身也是不科学的。如果只遵循可重复才真理的标准,地球是圆的这一概念或许会更晚出现,因为即使在现在人们日常生活中能重复感受到的地球印象或许也还是方的。第三、具体到癌症本身,我们对其了解到现在为止还是极其有限的,不同的科学家从不同的角度来表述自己的观点,这显然是有益于增进我们对这一疾病的了解和思考。而某一科学家得出某一种实验结果是在特定的实验条件、实验对象、实验者、分析方法下得出的。重复50次没有统一的可重复的结果的确不能说明前面那位科学家的结果不真实,可以说科学实验的结果也是多重偶然情况下的综合体,在某种程度上也是无法重现的。
作者: beyondhl    时间: 2012-9-22 09:06

现在的科学研究已经不仅仅是探索未知了,世俗的功利成分越来越多。1 O( F2 D0 ?) _/ I
还有多少人是无畏的求知者呢?
作者: echowdk    时间: 2012-9-22 10:26

诶,这是潘多拉的盒子。不打开便相安无事了吧。
作者: aulenuyah    时间: 2013-3-19 09:16

下载原文看看再说
作者: victormanboy    时间: 2013-3-19 13:41

看牢生物医学前景还不是很乐观啊! 但最起码我们是在进步啊。。。。
作者: 清水源    时间: 2013-3-19 15:17

不知道大多不可靠的作者中,除了选择性发表者,还有多少是无意的?  在如今的环境中,估计无意者不多吧?
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图了名, 得了利 , 还可以自娱自乐。




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